Conversation about...Open Heavens

Summary
Questions
Myths
Conversation
Conclusion
Last updated 1/6/2025

Summary

This conversation provides a summary of the biblical mapping topic conversation about the purpose of the tree of life in God's plan for people both before and after their sin. Until an expanded version is written on-site, readers may read foundational assertions at:

1. "You are a high priest into the eternal-places according to the order of Melchizedek" in PDF Dissertation, p. 288n145;


2. "...people and the inherited sin from Adam..." in PDF Dissertation, p. 115n34;


3. and "Barr proposes Genesis history as a lost chance at immortality from the tree of life..." in PDF Dissertation, p. 118n40.


4. See also in our  2024 book publication by WIPF & Stock p. 101n34; 104n40; and 259n145 .

Question(s)

Questions are designed to focus the conversation in the mapping section and either reveal incoherence or knowledge gaps in hearing of God's speech. Each question links to related discussion content into the evaluation of the biblical conversation below.

1. Question: Why was the tree of life in the earthly Eden available to people before their sin?
• How does that availability relate to the promise of Christ and the hope of promised riches by access to his unseen heavenly kingdom that Moses held (Heb 11:24-29)?


2. Question: What was the purpose of the tree of life for people living in the flesh by decay of their surrounding creation before sin? Did God's purpose for flesh bodies change by people's sin from permanent to temporary? Did the curse on the ground change the physiology of the flesh? Or, did just the method of access change to the tree of life from absolute to contingent after sin? Does God ever say that people were to live in the flesh in decay of surrounding creation forever on earth in contrast to the better promises with no-decay in eternal/perpetual kingdom conditions?


3. Question: What is the symbolism behind the image of the cherubim (angels) "to preserve a way, a tree of the life" (lishmor 'eth-derekh 'ets hahayyim Gen 3:24)?
• Were the angels preserving access or forbidding access by people to the tree of life?
• Does this angelic ministry have any correspondence with the purpose of angels as ministering spirits to those about to inherit salvation by faith in God's promised provision of a way to the tree of life in Christ (Gen 3:24; cf. Heb 1:14; Rev 2:7)?


4. Question: When God reveals the purpose of the tree of life, that it would provide about people "...and live in the eternal/perpetual places" (Hebrew: wahay le'olam Gen 3:22), does le'olam add any spatial weight to the destiny of the purpose for the tree of life before the sin of people?
• Does the Hebrew term in context only apply to missed opportunities for a perpetual life in the flesh on earth or to preserve a normative transformation at the end of life in the flesh to a glorious heavenly life in better perpetual conditions?


5. Question: Since people are created in God's "in his image" (betsalmow Gen 1:27), i.e., people typologically image the unseen spirit God of heaven on earth (cf. John 5:24), is it possible that people in a dark creation, before their sin, were designed by God as positive revelation to portray, with their lives in a greater way, the unseen spiritual reality of heavenly operations in the then existing kingdom of the heavens?
• Thereby, by removal from Eden after choosing to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, like Israel's disbelief in entering the promised land, did people typologically on earth visibly live out the spiritual reality about removal from heavenly Eden for those creations who disobey God's laws in sin? Do Adam and Eve typify the spiritual realitiesin to out of heavenly realms similar to Israel out to into heavenly realms?


6. Question: In light of Moses's revelation of the creation tabernacle view in levels of holiness, how naive were Adam and Eve about the tabernacle/temple situation of God's creation in levels of holiness due to the presence of evil before their creation?
• Is God's promise of "you will surely die" lit. "to die you will die" (mowth tamuth Gen 2:17) only fleshly cellular death? Can fleshly death typologically represent in the visible world the unseen realities about separation from God in the invisible heavenly realm when judged before him after fleshly death (cf. Heb 9:27)?
• Did the serpent play on 1) Eve's earthly focus about the pleasures of her flesh and fleshly death, or, 2) her knowledge about spiritual matters before God in heaven after death at judgment, by his emphatic statement to her, "you surely will not die" lit. "not die you will die" (lo-mowth temuthun Gen 3:4)?
• Does Moses portray Eve as: 1) naive about heavenly destiny or, 2) play on her pride about her knowledge of heavenly destiny for those in the likeness of God? Was Eve persuaded that knowledge about the current evil of the dark realm, added to her unseen knowledge about the current temple situation of holiness, and the good of the heavenly realm, somehow would make her wise in the visible reality of earth now?
• Did Eve perhaps lose faith in the unseen heavenly promises and later judgment before God after death with more focus on earthly visible reality like many people (Cain, Nimrod, Balaam, Israel, Babylon) have done since (Gen 3:6; cf. 2 Cor 4:16-18; Phil 3:18-21)?

Myths

Myths consist of earthly focused philosophical and theological claims, which God has not spoken in his word-speech. These are commonly accepted as warrants among some people to flatten heavenly truth for correspondence with errant (supposed) earthly promises applied by adherents either alone or in a group over other people not in their group (Matt 24:4-12; cf. Col 2:8). Each listed myth links to related biblical conversation in the material below concerning God's speech about the ability of Christ to bring all things to himself in heaven.

1. Myth: Access by people to the tree of life to live in heaven was either not available or unnecessary until people sinned, or has never been available in God's purposes.


2. Myth: People, in their flesh bodies, before personal sin by Adam, would not have endured decay with death of the flesh and spiritual transformation to heaven (cf. Rom 5:12).


3. Myth: The curse on the ground changed the flesh of people from perpetual to temporary.


4. Myth: In Eden, people due to sin lost an opportunity for continuance of a perpetual earthly kingdom for rule over the dark creation of the earth in the realm of the devil and his angels.


5. Myth: Hebrew olam only has temporal force ("everlasting, forever, eternal") with no spatial force ("eternal/perpetual-places") in Moses's narrative historical account in Genesis. The early patriarchs in Genesis were naive about unseen heavenly matters of Christ, which Moses held (cf. Heb 11:24-29). Ideas of heavenly ascension for people only later developed after the loss of Israel's Temple and the astrological influence under Persian captivity in Second Temple Literature from the time of Daniel.


6. Myth: God's emphatic promise known by Eve concerning mowth tamuth ("you will surely die" lit. "to die you will die" Gen 2:17) only refers to their visible world and fleshly death, as only theoretical, without any actual experience of any kind of death in the then existing cosmos.

Related Conversation of God's Speech
through Revelation of his Word

Introduction

Few students of God's speech consider the biblical, typological, revelatory purpose for Moses writing about the tree of life in the garden in earthly Eden (Gen 2:9, 16-17; 3:1-3, 22-24; cf. Prov 11:30, 13:12, 15:4; Rev 2:7, 22:2). In biblical usage, the "tree of life" motif serves inspired authors (Moses, Solomon, Jesus, and John) as an analogy (links realistic information to logically explain something else), typology (links realistic information to explain unseen matters in a greater way), and allegory (links are to explain aspects of something else with no realistic association between them, i.e. metaphor as a figure of speech, e.g., Prov 11:30, 13:12, 15:4). These biblical methods of revelation are developed in   Mapping Conversation 4: First-century, Aion-Field (apocalyptic), Temple-of-the-Heavens Based, Background Revelation. This conversation develops the intended typology between the antitype of the tree of life in earthly Eden (Gen 2:9, 16-17; 3:1-3, 22-24) and its corresponding type in the unseen realities of the eternal/perpetual-places of heaven (Rev 2:7, 22:2). It also incorporates the typological purpose for man's creation in the image of the spirit God in heaven as revelation to the dark creation without the light of his glorious presence (Gen 1:26-27). Further, this conversation analyzes the curses spoken by God after the sin of his people in relation to their flesh and removal of the tree of life. Overall, I argue for the availability of the tree of life before their sin reveals people could have absolute access in God's design for transformation at a normative death to spiritual bodies in heavenly places.

Tension About the Tree of Life and Man Created in God's Image in Closed-Heaven Paradigms

By application in the more common closed-heaven ideology for people, in combination with proof-texting interpretation of biblical texts related to the tree of life, several erroneous concepts arise about the tree of life. It mostly views as mythical metaphor with associated emotional imagery for a peaceful life on earth in the flesh full of God's blessings while ruling the visible creation. Interpreters ignore tensions that create incohesion with the usual earth-centric kingdom paradigm. For example:

1. Both the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil plant in the midst of the garden at the same event before the disobedience of Adam and Eve (Gen 2:9). The question arises, what did the good God and his creation know about evil before the sin of Adam and Eve? Does this imply that evil already exists as an option in God's then present creation? The biblical evidence concerning the current state of the Genesis creation, when compared to the final state of all creation, where God dwells all in all (1 Cor 15:24-28; Rev 21-22), supports a positive response that at the time the trees are placed in Eden, evil was already present before the sin of Adam and Eve. For more information, consider Mapping Conversation 3: Who Turned Out the Light? Genesis 2:9 provides typological revelation to the pre-existence of evil at the creation and earthly commission of Adam and Eve. While very good in God's design, the Genesis creation forms a tabernacle/temple situation in levels of holiness due to the pre-cosmic existence of evil in the hearts of angelic beings. Consider Mapping Conversation 2B: Creation Before the Beginning and Sin by the Devil and  Mapping Conversation 2C: The Promise of Christ Before the Tabernacle of the Eternal-Places Creation.

Conclusion

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